Bill and Bob's Blog

Back from the CBT

admin — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:26:47 -0500

I am just back from three weeks locked away in Whistler, Canada, with the rest of the CBT (Committee on Bible Translation). Three weeks of discussing, agreeing, and sometimes disagreeing on the nuances of the meaning of words and the meaning of biblical passages. It doesn't get any better than that!

Well, perhaps a week in Switzerland would be better.

It was a really good time. Some of the committee members I had only known from a distance. Some I had known through my dad since his Bethel days. One I lived with in graduate school (Craig Blomberg). And others were brand new friends.

What was most educational was to see how dynamic translation works, first hand. From my years on the ESV I had gained an appreciation for formal equivalent translation, but to actually be part of a dynamic translation (okay, "functional equivalence") was a great teacher. I watched godly men and women struggle, sometimes agonize, over just the right wording so the NIV would faithfully convey the same meaning as intended by the biblical author. Whoever says dynamic translators have a lower view of Scripture needs to sit behind the veil and watch this group work.

What was amazing -- and I didn't realize this at first -- was that some of these translators defined "dynamic translation" for my generation, as the NIV is the quintessential and defining example of functional equivalence. I heard stories of the 1970's where these translators spent 10 weeks at a time creating the NIV. It was humbling to think that I get to sit and work with them.

Thank you for all your prayers for all the CBT. I am anxious to get blogging again in September. I have a whole new set of questions to ruminate on.

Summer of 2010

admin — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 09:05:57 -0500

I am going to be taking the summer off from blogging. On July 27 I head to the NIV translation meeting for three weeks. We appreciate your prayers as we work toward the 2011 release. The sense of responsibility continues to grow as I think about my involvement in the Bible used by millions of people.

After that I will be finishing the Greek mini-grammar, and then my book for new believers. Somewhere in there I have to find time to golf!

Bill

How Do We Define Biblical Words?

admin — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 10:44:55 -0500

Every once in a while I get a question that is so basic that it has never occurred to me to answer it. Someone asked me the other day, how do we know what Greek and Hebrew words mean?

The answers for Greek and Hebrew are somewhat different, so let me start with the Greek.

For a language like Greek, there has been a long tradition of lexicons and translations. From these, it is relatively easy to find the meaning of most Greek words. When a sentence is translated from, let’s say, Greek into Latin, since we know Latin, it is relatively easy to work back into Greek and see what the Greek word means. We can also look at the ancient lexicons and see how they define the Greek words.

Can an Individual Interpret Scripture (2 Pet 1:20)?

admin — Mon, 24 May 2010 11:15:15 -0500

2 Pet 1:20-21 are important verses for our doctrine of Scripture, and so it should come as no surprise that there are some differences of opinion on the meaning of the passage.

Peter begins in v 16 by saying, “For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty” (ESV). Peter is asserting his authority over the false teachers because of his direct experience with Jesus. One source of this first-hand knowledge is the Mount of Transfiguration experience (vv 17-19).

Peter continues by adding a second source of authority: the prophetic word (v 19), and then adds, “knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (ESV).

While there are a host of questions about the meaning of specific Greek words, the general meaning of the passage is clear. The audience of the letter should not listen to the false teachers but to Peter (and the other apostles). Their understanding of doctrinal truths are based on first hand information and on the direct work of the Holy Spirit, as was that of the original prophets. Sometimes, when looking at a passage with multiple questions, it is best to start with what we all agree on. So often what we believe in common in loss in the minutia of differences (as important as they may be) of a passage.

Biblical Languages as a Spiritual Discipline

admin — Mon, 17 May 2010 10:04:28 -0500

Last week's guest blog from Marc Cortez at Western Seminary was evidently interesting to many of you,so I thought I would post his followup blog this Monday. See you on Greek grammar next week.

Yesterday’s post, “The biblical languages in life and ministry,” sparked quite a bit of discussion. So, I thought it might be worth following up on that with a few more thoughts on the subject. Why bother with learning Greek and Hebrew? By the time you are done, you will have spent countless hours and probably a fair amount of money learning these languages. Was it worth it?

The Biblical Languages in Life and Ministry

admin — Sun, 09 May 2010 23:08:36 -0500

My friend Marc Cortez wrote this blog on the Western Seminary's blog site and I thought it is worth reporting. I look forward to your response.

Thanks to the NT Resources blog I ran across an interesting post on Original Languages and the Priesthood of All Believers. Since most of us have spent a fair amount of time with the original languages in our academic development, I thought his would be worth reflecting on.

The article begins with the following statement:

The original languages of scripture can be a blessing and they can be a curse. They can help or they can harm the priesthood of believers. I have seen both happen.

He goes on to express high appreciation for the value of studying the original languages, but also a significant concern that we be careful how we use our understanding of the languages – especially from the pulpit.

What do Prepositions Modify (2 Thess 2:13)?

Bill Mounce — Mon, 03 May 2010 11:25:37 -0500

Some times it can be tricky to hook a preposition up to the word it is modifying. In the example of 2 Thess 2:13, in the commentaries I checked they did not even discuss it. This is one of the advantages of Phrasing, but I will get to that in a second.

The verse reads, “But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved (εις σωτηριαν) , through (εν) sanctification by the Spirit (αγιασμω πνευματος) and belief in the truth (πιστει αληθειας)” (ESV).

A couple general things first. The verse has a double accusative; God chose “you” as the “firstfruits.” There is a textual problem that explains the difference of the NIV when it reads “from the beginning” instead of “firstfruits.” And the single preposition εν governs both its objects, “sanctification” and “belief.”

This latter point is especially important in helping us determine the meaning of the passage. The realities described by these two objects are being closely connected and cannot be two unrelated truths. That much we know grammatically.

Classical and Koine on “New”

Bill Mounce — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:21:27 -0500

Language changes. It is one of the undeniable, universal truths of reality. Events can slow the development of a language down, like the King James version or Luther’s version of the Bible. But time marches on, and language changes.

Language changes for many reasons. Forms simplify. Influences come from other languages, immigration, war. I saw a statistic yesterday that there are 540,000 words in English today, and in Shakespeare’s day there were only 180,000. Apocryphal or not, it is certainly generally true as all of reality is speeding up to internet speed. (See YouTube for a fascinating look at the current pace of change.)

The problem comes when we assume that language doesn’t change, that vocabulary is stagnant, and that grammar is written in stone.

Prayer and Fasting (1 Cor 7:5)

Bill Mounce — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:40:19 -0500

The other day I spoke briefly about textual criticism and why the Greek texts behind the King James Version (and the NKJV) and all modern translations are different. Here is an example of how that works out.

In 1 Cor 7:5 Paul is discussing the issue of sexual intimacy in marriage. He says, “Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control” (ESV).

The KJV reads, “that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer.” So is fasting a legitimate reason to withhold sexual intimacy, and what did Paul actually say?

Are Elder’s Children “Believers” or “Faithful”? (Titus 1:6)

Bill Mounce — Sun, 04 Apr 2010 23:50:21 -0500

Most of the requirements for church leadership are straight forward. Each person is to be above reproach, and among other things this means they are faithful in marriage, self-controlled, manage their household well, etc.

Perhaps the most difficult requirement to interpret is found in Titus 1:6, where Paul says that the children must be εχων πιστα, “having faithful.” πιστος can mean “faithful, reliable, trustworthy.”

As you can see, the Greek can’t come directly over into English. It is slightly idiomatic in the use of “having,” but the basic meaning is clear; the children must possess this quality. But what exactly is the quality?

Christ’s Death and Our Justification (Rom 4:25)

Bill Mounce — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:10:59 -0500

Prepositions can be nasty things. Part of the problem is that the meaning of some can be quite fluid, hard to nail down. But the advantage of prepositions is exactly the same; they are fluid and can often mean many different things.

Then add to this the hermeneutics of rhetoric. When you tread poetry, or when words are begin chosen not only for their meaning but also the rhetorical effect, the meanings of words can become stretched.

And then just to complicate words further, if there is a possibility that the author is quoting something, then you have to take into account the original author’s intent, and how the quoting author uses words has less significance relative to the word’s meaning. This is why seminaries have courses in hermeneutics.

Take, for example, Rom 4:25. Speaking of Jesus, Paul says he “was delivered up for (δια) our trespasses and raised for (δια) our justification.” What does δια mean? Does it have to mean the same thing in both places? Should it necessarily be translated the same way in both places?

Where Did v 4 Go? (John 5:4)

Bill Mounce — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 23:58:46 -0500

My wife Robin came home from a Christian speakers conference yesterday and told me about a discussion they had. John 5 was the passage under discussion, and when they arrived at v 4, to their surprise it wasn’t there. I guess it caused quite a stir. Someone found it in the NASB, but no where else. (I guess no one had the KJV).

This happens in several occasions in the Bible. There are even verse references “missing” in the KJV. What is going on? Well, either someone left the verse out, or somewhere along the line someone added a verse in. But who ever assigned the verse references, he had v 4.

This is a pretty big issue, and a simple blog can’t do it justice. It can also degenerate into a pretty ugly discussion; many of the people involved in the discussion don’t know much Greek (if any), and in the worst case scenarios the discussion is reduced to a matter of salvation. “If you don’t believe what I believe about the text of the Bible, you aren’t a Christian.” Let’s see if we can steer clear of this type of ungodliness.

This is the basic question of the Greek text, and the technical name for it is “text criticism.” (I am going to stick with the Greek Testament, not the Hebrew.) Here is the basic reconstruction.

Grant Repentance (2 Tim 2:25)

Bill Mounce — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 10:30:40 -0600

Paul tells Timothy that he must stay away from senseless controversies, not be quarrelsome but rather kind, patiently enduring evil. Paul is thinking specifically of how Timothy should deal with the false teachers at Ephesus, men that I have argued in my commentary are the Ephesian church leadership.

Paul follows up with this statement. “God may perhaps grant (δώῃ) them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will” (2 Tim 2:25-26). Paul had already warned him that church leadership must be above reproach else they might fall into the power of Satan (1 Tim 3:6-7). It would appear that this had in fact happened in the Ephesian church, and that the wolves among the flock predicted in Acts 20:29-30 were in fact within the current leadership.

The phrase “granted them repentance” always struck me as a somewhat strange expression. Don’t we repent when we come under the conviction of the Holy Spirit, see our error, and repent? Perhaps, some of the time; but it appears that the Ephesian church leadership had gone considerably beyond this point. The only repentance they were going to experience was if God gave it to them. What does this mean?

What's an Anacoluthon?

Bill Mounce — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:00:17 -0600

I went in to see the doctor a while back and he said that I had, well, I didn’t know the word he used. It was too long and Latin based. I asked him what that meant, and he said, a cold (I think it was).

“If it is just a cold,” I asked, “then why not call it a cold?”

“Because we can’t charge you a lot of money to diagnose a cold,” he responded.

“No, really, why use a long complicated term when a short one would do?”

My doctor is a long-term personal friend, so we have lots of fun conversations. Honestly, part of the answer is to sound esoteric he said, but part of it is to be medically specific. “Cold” is a pretty large category, and I had a specific form.

But before we start blaming the medical profession for something, we should look at our own discipline and ask if we do the same thing. I snicker sometimes when I use the word “lexicon” to describe a dictionary. Why do we call it a “lexicon”? Perhaps there is an historically specific reason, but perhaps we like to sound especially learned.

What is Necessary (δει) for Church leadership? (1 Tim 3:2)

Bill Mounce — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:15:58 -0600

I was reminded the other day how meaning is conveyed not only by individual words but also by the larger context of those words. It is easy to hang on to a particular word and forget to check the overall context, but it is equally easy to miss the meaning of a particular word by not looking at its context.

1 Tim 3:2 says that “an overseer must be (δει) above reproach.” δει is a strong word; it leaves no wiggle room. This is supported by its use throughout the Pastorals, throughout Paul, and throughout the NT (see my commentary, pp 169f). If a person is to be in a position of church leadership, then they must meet the overall standard of being “above reproach.”

I remember a discussion with a former elder when we were working on a elder position paper (available under the Publications tab near the bottom of the page). The goal was to define what we understood to be the biblical instructions for recognizing official church leadership. When we were done he commented that he thought the whole process was unnecessary, and all we needed to do was elect good men who could make decisions. Wow. Such a blatant willingness to ignore the clear and unequivocal teaching of Scripture, and to replace the Word of God with the word of a man. (And he claimed to be an inerrantist. Ah, the intersection of belief and practice.)

To Metaphor, or not to Metaphor?

Bill Mounce — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:35:08 -0600

That is the question of Galatians 3:24. I was reminded of this question this morning as I listen to my nephew preach a good sermon on Galatians 3.

Dave preaches from the NIV, so in v 24 he read, “So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.” “Put in charge” is a colorless phrase that conveys a very basic meaning of authority, but it does convey meaning to almost any reader.

The NASB (also NKJV and ASV) has “become our tutor,” which defines a little more closely what the NIV means by “charge.” It is probably meant to reflect the KJV “schoolteacher.” The problem is that the Greek term παιδαγωγος evidently does not contain the sense of “teacher.” BDAG defines the word as, “the man, usu. a slave … whose duty it was to conduct a boy or youth … to and from school and to superintend his conduct.” They offer the gloss “one who has responsibility for someone who needs guidance, guardian, leader, guide” and specifically states that the word does not include the nuance of “teacher.”

Are We God’s Poem (Eph 2:10)?

admin — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:41:46 -0600

Paul tells the Ephesians that “we are his workmanship (ποιημα), created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (ESV). ποιημα (related to the verb ποιεω) means “that which is made,” hence work, creation” (BDAG).

It is etymologically connected to poème (Middle French), poema (Latin), and ποιημα (Greek).

Because of this, you often hear the idea of the English “poem” creeping back through the centuries and used to define the nuance of ποιημα. And so we hear assertions such as:

“Poiema emphasizes God as the master Designer, the universe as His creation” (Rom 1:20).

“As the artist seeks to express himself in his work, so God expresses Himself in us.”

“You are His work, you are His poem. A poem is a thing of grace. A thing of beauty, God wants your life to be a thing of grace and of beauty and as God works in your life it will become a thing of grace and of beauty; you are His poem.”

“But the beauty of God’s workmanship is not displayed in posing. That beauty can only he displayed when we are put to work fulfilling His purpose in us.”

These kinds of statement make picturesque sermon illustrations, but unfortunately have no basis in truth.

Grace and the Church

Bill Mounce — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:48:55 -0600

I was going to write a Greek blog in ποιημα, but I saw an interview on TV a couple days ago and I can’t stop thinking about it, and I need your input to help me understand.

It was an interview on the Mike Huckabee Report. He interviewed Gayle Haggard, the wife of pastor Ted Haggard and author of Why I Stayed: The Choices I Made in My Darkest Hour. Her husband was the founder of the 14,000-member New Life Church in Colorado Springs and was president of the National Association of Evangelicals. If you don’t already know, he admitted to an incident with a male prostitute.

Huckabee was talking to her mostly about forgiveness. He asked what was the most painful thing that happened. Her answer was fascinating. Certainly learning of the event was painful. Her children’s loss of dignity was hurtful. She said that she had received many kind and encouraging emails from homosexual men and Christians, and many cruel and hateful emails from homosexual men and Christians. Her conclusion: people are people.

But the event that hurt the most was their forced separation from the church and the people that they had loved for 22 years.

Preaching and Toastmasters

admin — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:15:10 -0600

When we moved to Washougal a few months ago, my wife and I had to start the somewhat painful experience of making new friends. We were committed to having friends outside of a local church so that all of our friends are not Christians. That task is easier said than done.

Robin, my wife, is a good speaker and enjoys conferences with other women; so she wondered if she should take the new time she has and develop those gifts. Toastmasters, here she comes.

Toastmasters is an interesting organization (www.toastmasters.org). It is designed to help people, especially people in business, learn to verbally communicate, a skill that all people in business require. The different groups gather weekly, and the different members give speeches and are encouraged and critiqued.

I have found my wife’s experience with Toastmasters a more positive and encouraging experience than anything I have ever witnessed in a church, and I find myself wondering if every preaching pastor should not aggressively make Toastmaster part of his or her weekly experience. They would learn a lot about preaching, and they would foster positive relationships with non-believers. Where is the problem in this picture?

What Comes First, the Chicken or the Egg?

Bob Mounce — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:26:23 -0600

Have you ever thought about exegesis and theology in terms of the old chicken and egg conundrum? Following the inductive approach, exegesis insists on the prior role holding that theology is merely the organization of theological insights gained from the work of the exegete. But the theologian recognizes the need of the larger picture which in fact leads the exegete to a proper understanding of the individual verse.

The identification of the “seven spirits” in Revelation 1:4 presents such a problem. The theological oriented interpreter reasons deductively that in a passage that speaks of God (“him who is and who was and who is to come”) and “Jesus Christ” (v. 5), certainly the Holy Spirit is the one intended by “the seven spirits.” The doctrine of a triune God almost demands it. At this point the theologian then searches for support. The immediate reference is Isa 11:2 which lists three couplets of of two virtues each. But wait, Isn’t that six rather than seven? Well, Yes, in the MT but go to the LXX and you will find an additional virtue added (eusebeias) which adds up to seven.

The argument— that it would be improper to bracket anyone less than deity with the Father and the Son—loses weight in view of such verses as Luke 9:26 (the Son returns “in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels” and 1 Tim 5:21 where Paul calls for obedience “in the presence of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels.”

Sabbath(s) and Sunday

admin — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:33:32 -0600

Acts 20:7 reads, “On the first day of the week (μια των σαββατων), when we were gathered together to break bread ….” (ESV).

There is an obvious question for the Greek newbie as to why μια is translated as “first” when we learned it as “one,“ and why σαββατων is translated as “week” when we learned it as “sabbaths”? Why “first day of the week” and not “one of the sabbaths”?

Part of the key is in the nature of the word σαββατον. It is not as straight forward as one might expect. A quick perusal of BDAG show these options.

1. “the seventh day of the week,” hence, the “Sabbath.” It can be used in the singular but also the plural, and here is the interesting part; in the plural it can refer to multiple days but it can also refer to a single day. Why, you say, would they do that? I have no idea. The attestation given in BDAG is significant and the point can’t really be debated. There is evidently something idiomatic in how the word is used such that a plural can refer to a single day.

2. “Week.” Again, it can be both singular (Lk 18:12; Mk 16:9; 1 Cor 16:2) and plural.

The Name of Jesus (Phil 2:10)

admin — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:35:07 -0600

I find it interesting how things can often occupy Christians’ minds. Sometimes our preoccupations are healthy, when they are the very things that preoccupy Jesus. But other times we become so preoccupied with secondary things that, in essence, they become idols.

This doesn’t mean our preoccupations are necessarily wrong; many times the things that consume our thinking are good things, theological things, things of God. Just like the Pharisees. They were consumed with the minutia of the Law, but that consumption was a barrier that allowed them to neglect the heart of God. And that is the point.

In dealing with the adiaphora (“secondary things”), in working with “strong” and “weak” Christians (Romans 14), the difficult question is determining whether our particular theological or social preoccupation is of central significance, something all Christians must agree to, or whether our preoccupation belongs to the adiaphora, secondary things about which we can agree to disagree.

One of the topics that often surfaces in this context is the name of God. When the Bible says “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow” (Phil 2:10, ESV), is the power in the actual name “Jesus” (or more likely “Lord,” see later in the verse)? When Peter says that “there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12), do we all have to get the “name” right, and that means pronouncing it properly?

Dangerous Compassion (off topic)

admin — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 19:51:30 -0600

I had a great experience this Christmas and wanted to share it with you. It doesn’t have much to do with Greek, so I wouldn’t even try to make some sort of artificial connection.

With our move to Washougal, Washington, most of our Christmas traditions had to change since in the past they involved family. And with two of my three kids in college, the new traditions were even more important to them than to me. My wife and I have discovered that it is the stability of family traditions that help our kids go out and conquer the world; no matter what happens, they can always come home again to what is familiar and safe.

So we told each kid that they could establish one new tradition, so we went bowling and played games. But Tyler wanted to to serve a Christmas meal at a homeless shelter. We have never done this as a family, so my wife Robin made some calls and we headed to The Lord’s Gym the night of the 23rd. This is a food bank that operates in conjunction with an inner-city church in Vancouver.

There we stood, five tall very white people holding serving spoons and staring at life situations decidedly different from our own. First lesson: you don’t have to go overseas to serve in short terms missions. The same type of diversity exists in our back yards. I remember thinking that as a church we shouldn’t allow anyone go on an overseas mission until they had worked at a local mission. Probably a good idea.

Emphatic First and Second Person Pronouns

admin — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:26:29 -0600

Last week I talked about the emphatic use of αυτος in the Beatitudes, and a related question came in this week about the use of the emphatic form of εμου in Matt 10:18. The question specifically had to do with the word order and whether “on account of me” is emphatic because of its unusual word order.

Unfortunately, I do not have access right now to the commentators listed in the question so perhaps some of you out there could check this out.

The verse reads, “and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake (ενεκεν εμου), to bear witness before them and the Gentiles” (ESV).

There are really two issues here. The first is word order, which is, roughly, “before governors and kings you will be dragged for my sake.” This does not especially strike me as unusual word order, the prepositional phrase following the verb it modifies.

Emphatic Pronouns and Salvation (Matt 5:3)

admin — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:30:27 -0600

Coming to a clear and accurate understanding of the emphatic use of pronouns can be a little tricky. It is a matter of nuance and often difficult (if not impossible) to translate. The oblique cases of the first and second pronouns have distinct forms, but what about the third person personal pronoun, αυτος?

Since the verb contains the reference to its object, αυτος ακουει and ακουει have the same basic meaning, “he hears.” And so the reasoning goes, αυτος is unnecessary and its presence is making a point.

That point is most often seen in contrasts. John the Baptist says, “I (εγω) baptize you with water... He (αυτος) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire” (Matt 3:11).

But one of the most theological powerful and provocative uses of the emphatic third person pronoun is in the beatitudes. All have the same construction. “Blessed are the … for they (αυτοι) will ….” The nuance of αυτος is that they they alone will receive the blessing.